Author Topic: Ihagee Elbaflex  (Read 1685 times)

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EarlJam

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Ihagee Elbaflex
« on: November 11, 2017, 02:42:17 PM »
Interesting times. Hard on the heels of the Reflex is the Elbaflex, yet another 35mm SLR on Kickstarter from a new iteration of Ihagee. It's described as "a joint effort of German and Ukrainian engineers. The inside of the camera is based on Ukrainian camera technology design manufactured in the Ukrainian Arsenal factory up to the late 1980s."

Proposed specs include:

- Fully mechanical SLR
- Shutter speeds from 1/2 to 1/500, plus B
- Nikon F mount
- PC connector for flash, sync at 1/60

The camera apparently hits Kickstarter on Monday, 13 November. Personally, I find this approach a bit more practical than Reflex, in that it's based on an existing design and uses an established mount for which there are 10s of thousands of lenses available on the used market at generally affordable prices.

https://www.thephoblographer.com/2017/11/10/new-elbaflex-nikon-f-mount-slr-takes-35mm-film/#/
http://i-hagee.com/

« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 03:55:33 PM by EarlJam »

John Robison

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Re: Ihagee Elbafkex
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2017, 03:32:14 PM »
The spec's look a little more realistic than the Reflex project. When all is said and done, really how fancy a camera do you need for a 35mm SLR? Especially for those folks just starting to explore film photography, no matter their age. And the F mount has a gazillion used lenses available, both Nikkors and aftermarket lens makers from our past and present.

One question arises from the spec's on their site, they say the shutter is metal but has a vertical slot? Does that mean a metal foil roller blind shutter or a more likely vertical travel metal shutter developed from the Copal Square style?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 04:15:44 PM by John Robison »

Francois

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2017, 08:22:03 PM »
I'm a bit disappointed that they went for the Nikon F mount. While there are thousands of lenses for it, the registration distance prevents you from adapting weird lenses to the camera.

On the other hand, if they had gone the route of a Pentax K mount, you can fit a glassless adapter on them.

Also, Nikon lenses tend to fetch a higher price than Pentax lenses that were made in the millions.
Francois

Film is the vinyl record of photography.

AJShepherd

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2017, 01:00:04 AM »
I have seen scuttlebutt on 'teh intarwebs' that this may be a rehashed Kiev 19 - which seems quite plausible in a way.

That said, I do like the fact it's mechanical so no battery to recharge.

Be interesting to find out more.

That said, I agree that a K mount would be a better bet for a new 35mm film SLR due to the choice of lenses available.

EarlJam

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2017, 02:58:18 AM »
My theory is that they've done a deal with Nikon or Cosina for Nikon FM10 lens mounts. Unless I've missed something, the FM10 is only mechanical SLR remaining in the market.

John Robison

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2017, 06:49:17 AM »
My theory is that they've done a deal with Nikon or Cosina for Nikon FM10 lens mounts. Unless I've missed something, the FM10 is only mechanical SLR remaining in the market.
I think the FM10 is discontinued. B&H lists it as "No longer available"
So, unless there is some NOS laying around it's dead.
The F6 is still listed, Nikon probably sells what....maybe six a year.....worldwide.

Faintandfuzzy

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2017, 04:24:03 PM »
Cosina stopped making the FM10 for Nikon July of 2016.  Currently, the only SLR being made isnthe F6....about 50 a month by twp Nikon employees. 

The project looks very interesting.

chris667

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2017, 12:52:24 PM »
Now THIS is something I can get behind.

I think the idea of a simple, manual SLR at a low price could be a great thing. Yes, it's a shame it takes Nikon lenses, but still.

I will put something to this one.

Miles

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2017, 09:33:40 PM »

The only lens system I have none of, PK or M42 would have felt more proletarian.

Interested :-)

Like the back and lens mount changing on the Reflex, feels less of a rehash but I'm a sucker for all things that have a whiff of Zenit & TOE about them.

Might get my Kosmo film soon too.

Francois

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2017, 10:11:26 PM »
Yeah, the packaging nerd in me can't wait to see what the box will look like  ;D
Francois

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rpmdrd

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2017, 05:15:49 AM »
looks like it came from a Kiev 19

chris667

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2017, 04:08:54 PM »

John Robison

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2017, 05:50:19 PM »
Just saw the Kickstarter campaign. My interest meter just dropped to zero. They say these will be built to order after the KS campaign at $1500 a copy!
Yeah, I'm sure (cue heavy sarcasm).
If anyone wants a Nikon mount camera that is a tank there are still plenty of Nikkormat's of all vintages for 1/5 or less of the "special 24 hour offer of $499" on their KS campaign.

EarlJam

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2017, 05:59:47 PM »
Just saw the Kickstarter campaign. My interest meter just dropped to zero. They say these will be built to order after the KS campaign at $1500 a copy!
Yeah, I'm sure (cue heavy sarcasm).
If anyone wants a Nikon mount camera that is a tank there are still plenty of Nikkormat's of all vintages for 1/5 or less of the "special 24 hour offer of $499" on their KS campaign.

Agree 100%. I paid $150 last year for a pristine, "closet queen" F2 with 50/1.4. What's interesting, to me, is that the Kiev 19M sold for around $100 with lens, around $250 in today's dollars. As this appears to be an update of that camera, with essentially the same specs from what I can tell, $500 with lens would be much more in line for the Elbaflex.

John Robison

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2017, 06:54:53 PM »



Agree 100%. I paid $150 last year for a pristine, "closet queen" F2 with 50/1.4. What's interesting, to me, is that the Kiev 19M sold for around $100 with lens, around $250 in today's dollars. As this appears to be an update of that camera, with essentially the same specs from what I can tell, $500 with lens would be much more in line for the Elbaflex.
Congrats on the F2 deal. Not as exciting, but I found a 55mm f2.8 Vivitar 1:1 macro at a pawn shop for $20 but didn't have a M42 body for it. A little later picked up a Fujica ST605n for $25, although that was about 3 years ago good deals are still out there. What we in the film community really need is a list and location of experienced film users who would volunteer to guide film camera newby's who need help assessing the functionality of used equipment. That is even more important than a new 35mm camera.

Faintandfuzzy

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2017, 09:03:40 PM »
Just saw the Kickstarter campaign. My interest meter just dropped to zero. They say these will be built to order after the KS campaign at $1500 a copy!
Yeah, I'm sure (cue heavy sarcasm).
If anyone wants a Nikon mount camera that is a tank there are still plenty of Nikkormat's of all vintages for 1/5 or less of the "special 24 hour offer of $499" on their KS campaign.

I went through the Kickstart and their website and see no mention of this camera at $1500.  Where did you see that?

John Robison

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2017, 09:45:48 PM »

I went through the Kickstart and their website and see no mention of this camera at $1500.  Where did you see that?
It's under the campaign information 6 paragraphs down from the top, just a little above the picture of the 4 colors of leatherette.
And I quote;
"The retail launch price of the camera will be much higher and is currently planed to be around $1500-......."
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 09:53:15 PM by John Robison »

Faintandfuzzy

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2017, 02:43:04 AM »

I went through the Kickstart and their website and see no mention of this camera at $1500.  Where did you see that?
It's under the campaign information 6 paragraphs down from the top, just a little above the picture of the 4 colors of leatherette.
And I quote;
"The retail launch price of the camera will be much higher and is currently planed to be around $1500-......."

Holy cow!  I'll just get an F6 instead.

imagesfrugales

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2017, 06:25:50 PM »
The whole thing is not even questionable and another bad example how an old brand name is slaughtered to milk naive people. The 130+ comments in the biggest german analogue forum are sledgehammer.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 06:29:46 PM by imagesfrugales »

Francois

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2017, 08:54:20 PM »
Somehow, I don't entirely blame them (the people on the forum).
One of the things that bug me is what they are about to pass old Kiev parts for something with German quality and workmanship...
I'm sure that if the original Ihagee founders were still here, they would have been ashamed of seeing something like that done to their company.

Francois

Film is the vinyl record of photography.

MacArron

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2017, 11:42:37 AM »
Interesting? Not really at that tag price and with Nikon mount. These days much people jump without parachute, not achieving a deep survey to really prove that the project is feasible. We will see...

Oh, I would have chosen M42 mount. Why Nikon?
Cameras to enjoy (I use them all):
Pentax P30/Pentax MZ5n/Yashica FX3/Contax 139Q/Contax RX/Mamiya C22/Exa 1b/Exa 1c/Kowa Six

imagesfrugales

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2017, 02:58:47 PM »
Oh, I would have chosen M42 mount. Why Nikon?
Because the Kiev M19 has a Nikon mount and not a M42. They grabbed what they could get for a few bucks and put a new badge on. Batteries and checking old meters coasts money and know-how, so they are disabled. 90 % profit. Money for nothing, chicks for free .....
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 03:10:11 PM by imagesfrugales »

John Robison

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2017, 07:53:37 PM »
They just might not reach their goal. To do that they would need backers for the 43 open slots at $529 each, in 17 days. That would require a lot of not too savvy backers.

jojonas~

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2017, 08:55:21 AM »
Oh, I would have chosen M42 mount. Why Nikon?
Because the Kiev M19 has a Nikon mount and not a M42. They grabbed what they could get for a few bucks and put a new badge on. Batteries and checking old meters coasts money and know-how, so they are disabled. 90 % profit. Money for nothing, chicks for free .....
hear hear. you could as well buy a green painted lomo lc-a off ebay.

okay, I'm not against this. if there is a market for it, go ahead. the camera looks nice atleast and it can take decent shots.

but I'm much much MUCH more excited about the reflex. gotta give credit to anyone planning to build a new analog camera from scratch.
/jonas

MrclSchprs

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2017, 07:07:34 PM »
I, for one, am very curious about this camera. What if you get Leica-like mechanical precision and quality control that goes along with it?

Bryan

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2017, 07:33:44 PM »
Without a light meter I'm out, plus I don't have much in the way of Nikon lenses other than a few that can be adapted to Nikon like an Adaptall and a few T-mount lenses.  I have enough cameras to last me a very long time so I don't need to spend a lot of money on what would amount to an new system for me, especially when I'm in the process of getting rid of some gear. 

They are more than half way to their goal with 13 days left. 

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/692391811/elbaflex-35mm-true-analog-camera-history-reloaded

John Robison

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2017, 08:23:15 PM »
They are more than half way to their goal with 13 days left. 

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/692391811/elbaflex-35mm-true-analog-camera-history-reloaded

They have been stuck at that level for a week. This ain't going to fly.

John Robison

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2017, 08:33:56 PM »
I, for one, am very curious about this camera. What if you get Leica-like mechanical precision and quality control that goes along with it?
Get a Nikkormat FT2 or FT3, Pay no more than $200 for a body, put the other $300 in 2 or 3 used Nikkor manual focus lenses. There you have it, a tough reliable camera with a history of serviceability and lenses for the same price as this one camera.



cs1

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2017, 07:28:42 PM »
There's an interesting article here with an interview providing some background.

http://emulsive.org/articles/ihagee-elbaflex-from-conjecture-to-truth-with-stefan-immes

I'm not entirely sure what to think about this project. After reading the interview I developed some sort of affection for the project, though I think that it's a dream that will have a hard time to become true. There're many "matter of taste" choices that have been made, not including a meter being one of them. They could simply have included one and still made the camera work without batteries. This would have made the camera more attractive for a wider range of folks. One aspect that's becoming more and more important as time progresses and as folks who can CLA a camera slowly but surely retire, is the service facility that they want to establish for the Elbaflex. Having a camera with an functioning service is quite attractive. Still, for the final price tag of the Elbaflex I can buy many Canon F-1s before I run out of a functioning body. It's an ambitious project which will have a hard time to fly, in my opinion.

John Robison

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2017, 12:35:40 AM »
Ok cs1 I read the interview. I'm still thinking this is a lot of hype over a very limited camera. Several statements made me stop short.
One, they said they are using the tooling from the old Kiev 19 but making a 'new housing and new improved parts' but since the tooling is to make parts for the original 19M just how is it modified so that a new housing and new internal parts can be made? Another thing, if the KS reward levels are close to or at cost then why is the retail projected to be $1500, I mean, if $529 is cost or even a little less than cost then $1500 is a mighty big markup.
And even if all costs are real and necessary simply to produce the thing then it will still not be able to compete with the used market with so many fine cameras available for 1/5 to 1/20 the price of backing this camera.
Some still might say, 'but a new camera, and a TWO YEAR warranty!'
So, If I have one of these and it packs up then what? Do I have to send it to Ukraine to get service? At whose expense for shipping? Of the two year warranty, does Ihagee add to the length of the warranty to compensate me for all the time I have no use of the camera because it's waiting for repair or in transit? (I know, most companies don't do this for their cameras but it should be required by law to do so, it would make them a lot more careful before releasing a camera and expecting the consumer to be their free beta tester.)
If this is a scam, then shame on the creators, if it's not, then the lack of backers so far have given the answer as to market viability of the product.

cs1

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2017, 05:22:51 AM »
Yes, you're perfectly right. Mainly the price, the limited features, and in the end the amount of open questions leave me sceptical as well.

Francois

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2017, 02:38:40 PM »
Warranties always remind me of the 100 year lightbulb that was sold during the 1990's. The bulb had a 100 year warranty.... But the company sure didn't last that long. Those who bought one and discovered that it didn't last that long, where can they send it in for repairs?
Francois

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EarlJam

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2017, 04:06:47 PM »
Three times markup from cost is a fairly standard measure, at least as practiced in my former industry (commercial AV products). If they're ultimately planning to sell through distribution or through retailers like B&H Photo, that typically accounts for 30% to 40% margin, either calculated up from cost or down from MSRP. The remaining 1/3 would cover cost of sale, overhead, and profit.

What's more difficult for me to assess is how it could cost $500 to recreate and remanufacture a 30 year old camera that originally sold for around $100, and probably cost $25 or so to make. Certainly there are startup costs and they'll have low volume, at least initially, but pricing seems designed to ensure that volume remains low. The Yashica DigiFilm project seems to have garnered nearly 7000 backers and about $1.3 million in funding, versus 64 backers and something less than $30,000 for the Elbaflex. I agree with John that the market appears to be speaking, loudly, on the viability of this project. 

One other thought: at $1500, there's no barrier to entry for another, more established manufacturer to enter the market and kill the Elbaflex before it has a chance to gain any market share. Consider Nikon making the decision to offer a new FM 3A with a branded Cosina 58/1.4 at the same price; or Cosina making an M42 mount camera priced at $999 MSRP. Both have established distribution channels and reputations.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 05:48:16 PM by EarlJam »

EarlJam

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2017, 02:13:48 PM »
It appears that the Elbaflex team may be listening to the market. There are now plans for a base model with a pledge price around $300, and both M42 and F mounts for both versions.

https://www.thephoblographer.com/2017/11/24/new-ihagee-elbaflex-kickstarter-update/

John Robison

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #34 on: November 25, 2017, 03:01:20 PM »
I am thinking that, until the supply of used 35mm SLR's dry up, which does not appear to be anytime soon, then this project is DOA.
Maybe they have good motives, I cannot judge, but with serviceable Nikon, Canon, Minolta, Olympus, Pentax, and yes Ricoh (with the PK mount), Fujica, Konica (now there is a great sleeper of a brand) and others unnamed overflowing in the market.....well you get where I'm going.

I actually like the idea of a currently made 35mm SLR, and a basic model, (in the vein of the Ricoh KR-5) is OK, but this may not be the time. 

chris667

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #35 on: November 27, 2017, 10:14:42 AM »
This, at least, is a more realistic price.

I have to say, though, that if if the project was set up by two former Leica employees, it makes me wonder what sort of markup Leica charges on a camera body. The implication that they would put a $1000 markup on a $300 camera doesn't reflect well on them.

Francois

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2017, 02:23:22 PM »
Even though leicas are expensive, I wouldn't be surprised that their markup is less than expected. They do produce cameras that are smooth like butter using high quality parts. You rarely get to see robust cameras like that.
Francois

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John Robison

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #37 on: November 27, 2017, 04:21:21 PM »
Regarding cost per unit; volume, volume, volume. How many can you make and sell within a fixed time period. Popular cameras from the 70's, even SLR's rolled off of simi automated production lines and were assembled from parts that were made on fully automated machines. a production run of 100K was not too much for a popular camera such as an OM-1 or K1000 or AE-1. This lowered man hours to produce a unit and cost per unit in parts.

Film will never, NEVER, reach that level again, probably not even 5% of that level. Of course back in the day SLR's were made by a handful of major camera companies. Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Minolta, Pentax, Konica dominated the mid to high end market, with Ricoh, Fujica, and Cosina subcontracting for Vivitar and many other house brands. 

Now with a very narrow market only one or two or, at the most, three companies could support a worldwide market for new film cameras. Two companies if you have a high end brand, like Leica, then a mid to low end market company.

As to retail, well that's all inflated monopoly money, $500 just won't buy what it used to. So, it may be that even a 'simple' 35mm SLR could cost $300~$500 (depending on level of features) at retail. Us oldtimers can get along fine without a built in meter but a neophyte my balk, especially if he doesn't have one of us gray hairs there to walk him through the basics of exposure, DOF and motion blur control.

The foregoing is why, at this time, it just may not be possible to produce and sell a new 35mm SLR.
Low volume drives cost per unit higher.
High prices drives down demand.
Low demand lowers volume even more, again increasing cost per unit...
And or and on, until the company folds. (or in this case, does not even get started)

More thoughts on retail; Even a new Holga sells at B&H for $40! Add to that $2 for black tape, a necessary accessory. A almost all plastic camera, including the one element lens. So, it's no surprise a 'simple' 35mm SLR could be $400 new at retail.


« Last Edit: November 27, 2017, 04:30:23 PM by John Robison »

Francois

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2017, 09:34:20 PM »
One of the biggest problems with retail is the number of intermediate steps a product takes before going to the store shelf.
And this reminds me a lot of my current holiday shopping.
There was an add for a dash cam on sale for 29$ at Walmart for black friday. I search online and get the specs. Pretty ho-hum but for the price, I decide to go on eBay to take a look. I found the exact same camera with the same exact specs for 12$. And the seller probably gets it for around 6$.
But if you take that camera, send it to the US to be labeled and branded, inserted into a fancy box, and then sold once more to Walmart, the price goes up.
Now is it worth 17$ for some fancy cardboard that will end-up in the recycle bin?
Francois

Film is the vinyl record of photography.

EarlJam

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #39 on: December 04, 2017, 05:24:32 PM »
As of today, it appears that the Elbaflex Kickstarter campaign has failed. In all, they raised roughly $30K, or 60% of the target.

Francois

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #40 on: December 04, 2017, 08:52:18 PM »
Oh well....
I guess it was to be expected in a sense.
If they had properly worked the price point and made sure there could be no doubt as to the quality of the end product, they could have been successful.
Francois

Film is the vinyl record of photography.

John Robison

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2017, 11:09:21 PM »
Oh well....
I guess it was to be expected in a sense.
If they had properly worked the price point and made sure there could be no doubt as to the quality of the end product, they could have been successful.

Now here is a question, well, actually two questions.
#1.  For a very basic, non metered SLR such as the one presented in this KS campaign. At what price point do you think it would attract backers.
$300? Apparently not.
$250? Might be too close to $300 (remember this is a body only)
$200? Getting closer? Perhaps.
$150? Probably, I would guess, but for an unmetered body only, I think this would be the absolute limit.
$139? Eleven dollars sounds like a lot less than $150 but this should draw enough backers. Could it be made (at any sufficient quality level) at this reward price point? Probably not I'm thinking.

#2.  How could one make sure "there could be no doubt as to the quality of the end product"?
In regard to the second question would it be enough to simply make the statement 'this is a high quality camera'?
Or perhaps you could offer a 10 year replacement warranty, ie. "If this camera fails within 10 years we will send you (Via overnight express) a new camera and you return the old camera in the pre-paid shipping carton your new camera came in."
Ok but, a 10 year warranty is only as good as the company that backs it, they could be out of business in 2 years.
So I'm just not sure how to leave 'no doubt' in a backers mind about the quality.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 11:23:02 PM by John Robison »

jharr

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2017, 11:46:13 PM »
Well, there is a difference between attracting backers and eliminating doubt in the minds of your potential customers. I think the latter is only done by hands on reviews by respected reviewers. Get on the forums and youtube and find out who people listen to. Then put a camera in the hands of those people. If your product is of good quality and has the features needed by most analog users, it will get good initial reviews and there will be buzz beyond just 'hey something new is potentially coming out'. It has to 'go viral', but with more substance than your typical Justin Bieber video. Then the market will decide whether it is worth your price point, but that price point will be higher if there is more user-generated information including sample photos.
"The camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera"   -- Dorothea Lange
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chris667

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #43 on: December 07, 2017, 11:26:50 AM »
As an aside, and possibly one that makes me sound rather snotty, I am genuinely mystified by the amounts hobbyist photographers will shell out for digital cameras which rarely last more than a couple of years.

For example, my local photography club, where they only ever post their photos to Facebook and Flickr, spend thousands on full frame DSLRs. Their money, of course, but I genuinely don't get why you would do that.

In that context, I could see them spending $300. In fact, I reckon a bit more. It just needs to be seen as desirable to the group of people with money.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 11:28:28 AM by chris667 »

MacArron

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #44 on: December 13, 2017, 03:39:10 PM »
Oh. A shame. Ihagee read my post about the mount  ;D

Quote
Elbaflex also available with M42 lens mount!

Dear backers,

many of you have asked us whether we can offer the Elbaflex with a different lens mount as well.

The good news is that we have done some calculations, racked our brains and did some prototyping and the result is that we can also offer this camera with a M42  and Pentax K lens mount. The M42 lens mount especially is interesting for lovers of analog photography because many old and historic lenses can be purchased online at extremely low costs. So far they had to be adapted to used analogue cameras with other mounts since almost no M42 cameras in good condition exist anymore. So the new Elbaflex with M42 lens mount is a unique way to open a whole horizon of very cost efficient opportunities.

All the best

The Ihagee Team

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/692391811/elbaflex-35mm-true-analog-camera-history-reloaded/posts/2052013
Cameras to enjoy (I use them all):
Pentax P30/Pentax MZ5n/Yashica FX3/Contax 139Q/Contax RX/Mamiya C22/Exa 1b/Exa 1c/Kowa Six

John Robison

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #45 on: December 13, 2017, 04:48:56 PM »
Oh. A shame. Ihagee read my post about the mount  ;D

Quote
Elbaflex also available with M42 lens mount!

Dear backers,

many of you have asked us whether we can offer the Elbaflex with a different lens mount as well.

The good news is that we have done some calculations, racked our brains and did some prototyping and the result is that we can also offer this camera with a M42  and Pentax K lens mount. The M42 lens mount especially is interesting for lovers of analog photography because many old and historic lenses can be purchased online at extremely low costs. So far they had to be adapted to used analogue cameras with other mounts since almost no M42 cameras in good condition exist anymore. So the new Elbaflex with M42 lens mount is a unique way to open a whole horizon of very cost efficient opportunities.

All the best

The Ihagee Team

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/692391811/elbaflex-35mm-true-analog-camera-history-reloaded/posts/2052013
Funding still unsuccessful, even though they finally offered a even more "basic" model (that looked better than the wood grip one) for $300.
For such a basic camera, with a questionable background, well, I think they would have had to be priced no more than $150 to attract more backers.

The KS campaign for the 'Reflex' was successful but, as with all KS campaigns we will have to wait to see if they can actually produce anything. So many of the hardware related campaigns drag on well past the estimated delivery date, then finally the bright, young and inexperienced creators, having used up all the money, have to drop out of sight to avoid being lynched.

chris667

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #46 on: December 14, 2017, 09:11:19 PM »
I don't know.

I think $300 is reasonable. I'd buy one for that. And there is an actual factory with staff that can make them, unlike most of them. It's more realistic than a lot of them.

The days of £50 Zenits are gone.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 09:27:26 PM by chris667 »

EarlJam

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #47 on: December 14, 2017, 10:38:23 PM »
Reflecting on the rollout of this project: I think that if this had started out as a $300-ish "back to basics", M42 mount SLR targeting the K1000 demographic, the Elbaflex may have had a chance. Then, the $1000-class "enhanced upgrade" could have been offered, once project funding was secured. In retrospect, I think they assumed that branding would overcome price resistance. Problem is, those who know the history of Ihagee and Elbaflex also know the history of Kiev, and that was the fatal flaw in their business plan.

John Robison

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #48 on: December 15, 2017, 07:28:18 AM »
I don't know.

I think $300 is reasonable. I'd buy one for that. And there is an actual factory with staff that can make them, unlike most of them. It's more realistic than a lot of them.

The days of £50 Zenits are gone.
Ok, so it's a bit more of a gamble but....if I want an M42 body I can pick up Spotmatics all day long, some for less than $50 with a 55mm f1.8 Tak included! What in the world would make me pay $300 for this thing?
Actually, 3 years ago I found a really good deal on a M42 mount Vivitar 55mm f2.8 1:1 macro, $20 at a pawn shop in excellent condition. But I didn't have a M42 body. Bought one at a photo show a couple of months later, also priced at $20, a Fujica ST605n, working perfectly and the price included good meter batteries. So, a rig that can focus from infinity to lifesize for $40. But, I live in the Pacific Northwest, things could be far different at your location.
I have also spotted at least a couple of M42 mount Zenits in the last few years, but both cameras were broken.
While it may be true that a new camera will cost $300 for even a dead simple model then , if that is true, it just may not be economical to make a new camera at this time. A company would have to wait for the supply of good used bodies to dry up, and that could take awhile.
Yes I know, I sound like a cranky old man.......hey wait, I AM a cranky old man.

chris667

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Re: Ihagee Elbaflex
« Reply #49 on: December 15, 2017, 09:27:45 AM »
Yes, you can still get those, and yes they're better cameras. But while that's good for old gits like you and me, it's a significant barrier to someone who is getting into film photography for the first time.

Schools can't buy secondhand cameras, for example. And people who want to try producing their own film photographs don't know how not to be ripped off. There are A LOT of people taking the opportunity to fleece newcomers.

If there isn't a source of new equipment, the newcomers will dry up and the knowledge will die off.