Topic: More Fujifilm discontinuations

[EarlJam]

https://www.fujirumors.com reports that Fuji is discontinuing a number of film offerings next year, including various 35mm pro-packs and large format ACROS. I've heard that several of the Fuji reps have pitched the company on doing an annual order program for large format, similar to Ilford, but whether that goes anywhere is anyone's guess.

March 2018
Fujicolor Superia X-Tra 400, 24 exposure, 3 packs
Fujicolor Superia X-Tra 400, 36 exposure, 3 packs
Fujichrome Velvia 50, Professional, 36 exposure, 5 packs
Fujichrome Velvia 100, Professional, 36 exposure, 5 packs
Fujichrome Provia 100F, Professional, 36 exposure, 5 packs

May 2018
Fujicolor Natura 1600, 36 exposures, individual rolls
Fujicolor 1600 Single Use Cameras (39 and 27 exposures)
Neopan 100 Acros 4×5 (20 pieces)
Neopan 100 Acros 8×10 (20 pieces)

[Francois]

Oh well.... I guess it's just the usual for Fuji...
I'm wondering why they don't just put the key in the door and call it quits.
It would definitely spare people the aggravation of having to read those notices year after year after year....

[Faintandfuzzy]

In all fairness to Fuji, the fault is not theirs.  The issue is that they cannot sell the film fast enough from a master roll before it expires.  Shops are then left with expired rolls that are sold for a discount.  Increasing prices does not change the situation.

Fuji would have to create an entirely new production line with the ability to do production in smaller volumes, like Kodak, Ilford, Ferrania, etc have.  They have run the numbers and it just doesn't make sense.

There is apparently enough volume to continue with the Superia 400 and Pro 400H lines, as well as some E6.  Kodak may steal enough of the E6 that Fuji will have to cut those as well...leaving just Kodak for E6.   Kodak is in a much better position to continue with C41 and E6.  Kodak can keep the lines going with Cine film, etc.  My guess is that Fuji is out of the film business by 2020.

[Francois]

Somehow, I keep on thinking it's a business decision that's not related to sales. Fuji directors seem to have strange business plans on their mind. I'm reminded of when Florian Kaps of The Impossible Project went to Tokyo for multiple meeting with them when they decided to pull the FP100. He wanted to buy their equipment for making the packs. He was ready to spend. He had money. But they just turned him down preferring to scrap the machines.

Personally, if I was making widgets and decided to stop production; I would much prefer to sell my widget making machine to somebody than to pay out of my own pocket to get the machine torn down and sold for the weight of metal.

I feel it's a bit the same thing here.
Now if they decided to make a single production run a year and pre-sell the entire stock before starting, I feel everybody would gain. And even if it meant converting one of their small research coaters for production, everybody would benefit. It's not like they are developing new emulsions when they scrap everything... if they are, it really shows that they are cuckoo...

[Faintandfuzzy]

Somehow, I keep on thinking it's a business decision that's not related to sales. Fuji directors seem to have strange business plans on their mind. I'm reminded of when Florian Kaps of The Impossible Project went to Tokyo for multiple meeting with them when they decided to pull the FP100. He wanted to buy their equipment for making the packs. He was ready to spend. He had money. But they just turned him down preferring to scrap the machines.

Personally, if I was making widgets and decided to stop production; I would much prefer to sell my widget making machine to somebody than to pay out of my own pocket to get the machine torn down and sold for the weight of metal.

I feel it's a bit the same thing here.
Now if they decided to make a single production run a year and pre-sell the entire stock before starting, I feel everybody would gain. And even if it meant converting one of their small research coaters for production, everybody would benefit. It's not like they are developing new emulsions when they scrap everything... if they are, it really shows that they are cuckoo...

As I understood it, the machinery was already scrapped when he got therw.

[Francois]

But still, I have the feeling that they're pretty fast at throwing away what took them years and millions to accomplish.

[Faintandfuzzy]

But still, I have the feeling that they're pretty fast at throwing away what took them years and millions to accomplish.

I would agree.  I think photographic materials as a whole is just anrounding error for Fuji worldwide sales.  Shame they dont capitalize on their history.

[Francois]

Throwing away the baby with the bath water....

[MiguelCampano]

I guess the only good thing is that Kodak is advancing their Ektachrome revival rapidly. Last week, the first batches of Ektachrome 100 were in the film sensitization chamber. Not sure if this is the actual production run or more "test" material.

[Francois]

Either way, it doesn't really matter. For me the fact that they're actually creating something is more important than the rest.

[Jack Johnson]

Fuji would have to create an entirely new production line with the ability to do production in smaller volumes, like Kodak, Ilford, Ferrania, etc have.  They have run the numbers and it just doesn't make sense.

I would love to see some film companies come together and build a joint factory where chemistry could be traded out for smaller production runs. They might negotiate on a common film base, inner packaging, spools, etc. Maybe trade out personnel in areas where they were concerned about trade secrets, or just sign scary contracts to protect the intellectual property.

I thought about it a few years ago when Ilford talked about how their Delta production line can be swapped out for small runs, and I started thinking if I were someone like Ferrania, Agfa, etc. I would love to do a "test run" for economic viability in someone else's facility, or sell short runs of classic formulations for exorbitant prices.

[Faintandfuzzy]

I guess the only good thing is that Kodak is advancing their Ektachrome revival rapidly. Last week, the first batches of Ektachrome 100 were in the film sensitization chamber. Not sure if this is the actual production run or more "test" material.

I can't wait to get my hands on this to run some high quality scans. 

[MiguelCampano]

Absolutely. I believe Kodak is truly capitalizing in the new wave of film. Quite honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if they brought back more than just Ektachrome in the future. Their recent ventures, although not quite as successful as anticipated, are showing a strong will to modernize the company without taking too much out of the history and reputation (that remains). The new Kodachrome magazine, I believe, could be a great ice-breaker for an experimental to reintroduce Kodachrome, with realistic, modern formulations, into the market that seems to be growing even though Fuji wants to give up on it.

[Francois]

Fuji would have to create an entirely new production line with the ability to do production in smaller volumes, like Kodak, Ilford, Ferrania, etc have.  They have run the numbers and it just doesn't make sense.

I would love to see some film companies come together and build a joint factory where chemistry could be traded out for smaller production runs. They might negotiate on a common film base, inner packaging, spools, etc. Maybe trade out personnel in areas where they were concerned about trade secrets, or just sign scary contracts to protect the intellectual property.

I thought about it a few years ago when Ilford talked about how their Delta production line can be swapped out for small runs, and I started thinking if I were someone like Ferrania, Agfa, etc. I would love to do a "test run" for economic viability in someone else's facility, or sell short runs of classic formulations for exorbitant prices.

That would be a good idea, but companies are so scared of industrial spying, even when it comes to products that they're not developing anymore that I doubt it could ever happen.

[John Robison]

Any 'film revival' will have limited success without processing support. I can shoot B&W and develop it myself but I'd rather drop off my color neg at a local shop.......but that has not been possible where I live for years. I would need to do it mail order which doubles (or more) the price. Who is even building new automated d & p for C-41 anymore? Or who is willing to maintain what there is? Unless the whole infastructure of film is going to be revived then any reintroduced film will have a hard time. Unless of course money is no problem, I don't think that is true for most of us.

[Jack Johnson]

Who is even building new automated d & p for C-41 anymore? Or who is willing to maintain what there is?

That is an excellent question.

[Faintandfuzzy]

Any 'film revival' will have limited success without processing support. I can shoot B&W and develop it myself but I'd rather drop off my color neg at a local shop.......but that has not been possible where I live for years. I would need to do it mail order which doubles (or more) the price. Who is even building new automated d & p for C-41 anymore? Or who is willing to maintain what there is? Unless the whole infastructure of film is going to be revived then any reintroduced film will have a hard time. Unless of course money is no problem, I don't think that is true for most of us.

There is no processing Layton or Olympia?

[John Robison]

 No, nothing since Costco stopped about 6 years ago. Although the capital of Washington state, Olympia really is a 'small town', so to speak and I would have a 60 mile round trip to the closest (if they are still open, haven't checked lately)
What's the situation in Victoria?

[Bryan]

No, nothing since Costco stopped about 6 years ago. Although the capital of Washington state, Olympia really is a 'small town', so to speak and I would have a 60 mile round trip to the closest (if they are still open, haven't checked lately)
What's the situation in Victoria?

Kenmore Camera in Kenmore and Panda Labs in Seattle still do C-41.  Panda Labs also does E-6.  I’m only a few miles from Kenmore Camera but I do mail order to The Darkroom in California for all my color. 

[chris667]

Ah, that's a pity, though hardly a surprise. I sent Fuji an email about the long-term availability of Velvia about a year ago and they didn't reply. The world will be a dull place without Velvia.

As to commercial processing, I think the situation is not all that bad. Dents, my much loved local camera shop, is still doing a roaring trade in C41 developing and printing. Their clientele are mostly young. It is typical for corporate behemoths to be late.

So let's not write it off yet!

[Faintandfuzzy]

No, nothing since Costco stopped about 6 years ago. Although the capital of Washington state, Olympia really is a 'small town', so to speak and I would have a 60 mile round trip to the closest (if they are still open, haven't checked lately)
What's the situation in Victoria?

Plenty of Labs local and interconnected.  Prism photo does C41 and E6 in house.  Lens and Shutter as well as Kerrisdale camera are drop off points for their lab in Vancouver.  They take your film there and you pay directly.  Other places as well...but those are the biggest. 

[Faintandfuzzy]

Ah, that's a pity, though hardly a surprise. I sent Fuji an email about the long-term availability of Velvia about a year ago and they didn't reply. The world will be a dull place without Velvia.

As to commercial processing, I think the situation is not all that bad. Dents, my much loved local camera shop, is still doing a roaring trade in C41 developing and printing. Their clientele are mostly young. It is typical for corporate behemoths to be late.

So let's not write it off yet!

Fuji has a severe disconnect with customers when it comes to film.  When you email Kodak or Ilford, they reply.  Fuji just ignores you.

[John Robison]

Fuji does seem to have a roaring business in instant film. They have introduced B&W in Instax wide now. Almost $2 a shot but interesting none the less. I have seen some folks get one of their Wide format cameras, saw off the front, and fit a press camera lens. Results are not bad if you can calibrate the focus.,

[gothamtomato]

I remember speaking to a Fuji rep years ago, who told me that the company's goal was to be the last one standing. No plans beyond that, only to outlast their competitors. They didn't care beyond that, which seemed to me to be a short-sighted game plan.

[Bryan]

If you like Acros you may want to stock up on it before prices start going up and suppliers run out.

https://www.casualphotophile.com/2018/03/30/fujifilm-to-discontinue-acros-100-film-in-october-2018/

[Indofunk]

I remember speaking to a Fuji rep years ago, who told me that the company's goal was to be the last one standing. No plans beyond that, only to outlast their competitors. They didn't care beyond that, which seemed to me to be a short-sighted game plan.

The last one standing selling film? Or just in general in the photography business? If the former then yes it seems to be quite an odd business plan, and I guess whatever film they're left selling they'll have the monopoly on it

[rattymouse]

Fujifilm is clearly exiting the non instant film market.   They may have already stopped manufacturing of all films for all we know and just be selling off old stock. 

[MiguelCampano]

If Fujifilm exits the non-instant market, would it mean a relative bump in business for Kodak with users switching over?

[Bryan]

I think that rather than re-size their manufacturing they made large final batches of film then shut it down.  They seem to announce the discontinuation of products when that stock starts running low.  That would make them less competitive with companies like Kodak and Ilford that have scaled down their manufacturing. 

[Francois]

It's getting to be pretty obvious that they just want out...
What I find a bit sad is that they won't sell their recipes or equipment to other people who are willing to keep on producing...

[Faintandfuzzy]

Fujifilm is clearly exiting the non instant film market.   They may have already stopped manufacturing of all films for all we know and just be selling off old stock.

There is nothing to indicate that is the case.  You have been spouting that off on Photrio...don’t start it here. 

[rattymouse]

Fujifilm is clearly exiting the non instant film market.   They may have already stopped manufacturing of all films for all we know and just be selling off old stock.

There is nothing to indicate that is the case.  You have been spouting that off on Photrio...don’t start it here.

Uh no.   I'll post as I please.

[rattymouse]

It's getting to be pretty obvious that they just want out...
What I find a bit sad is that they won't sell their recipes or equipment to other people who are willing to keep on producing...

Yeah, we learned how little Fujifilm cares when they shut down and destroyed their packnfilm line.

[rattymouse]

If Fujifilm exits the non-instant market, would it mean a relative bump in business for Kodak with users switching over?

Almost certainly, but not enough to matter for Kodak as film is not one of their core businesses.  It's a tiny component of the company.  Kodak is a printing company now and not a successful one at that.  They are experiencing a double digit decline in revenue for many years.   Kodak is shrinking every quarter.

[rattymouse]

I think that rather than re-size their manufacturing they made large final batches of film then shut it down.  They seem to announce the discontinuation of products when that stock starts running low.  That would make them less competitive with companies like Kodak and Ilford that have scaled down their manufacturing.

Kodak still uses building 38 so they have scaled down nothing.

I agree that Fujifilm silently shuts down production and then waits a year or two while stock dwindles down.  That's why we get no warning that a film might be in trouble, because they already stopped making it.  That's why we get no price increases from Fuji (to make that film more profitable), because they eliminated it already.

[Bryan]

I think that rather than re-size their manufacturing they made large final batches of film then shut it down.  They seem to announce the discontinuation of products when that stock starts running low.  That would make them less competitive with companies like Kodak and Ilford that have scaled down their manufacturing.

Kodak still uses building 38 so they have scaled down nothing.

I agree that Fujifilm silently shuts down production and then waits a year or two while stock dwindles down.  That's why we get no warning that a film might be in trouble, because they already stopped making it.  That's why we get no price increases from Fuji (to make that film more profitable), because they eliminated it already.

What about buildings 1 through 37?  They used to employ 60,000 people, now it’s 6,000.  They don’t make their own cellulose acetat base anymore. 

[rattymouse]

I think that rather than re-size their manufacturing they made large final batches of film then shut it down.  They seem to announce the discontinuation of products when that stock starts running low.  That would make them less competitive with companies like Kodak and Ilford that have scaled down their manufacturing.

Kodak still uses building 38 so they have scaled down nothing.

I agree that Fujifilm silently shuts down production and then waits a year or two while stock dwindles down.  That's why we get no warning that a film might be in trouble, because they already stopped making it.  That's why we get no price increases from Fuji (to make that film more profitable), because they eliminated it already.

What about buildings 1 through 37?  They used to employ 60,000 people, now it’s 6,000.  They don’t make their own cellulose acetat base anymore.

Building 38 is where the coating occurs.

[Faintandfuzzy]

Best not to listen what Ratty says when it comes to film.  According to Kodak, and their Ektachrome testing, they have shrunk down production runs with new equipment to be more cost effective.  To quote Kodak directly :

“Kodak is using “all new equipment” on a much smaller scale to make the film, bringing costs down for smaller manufacturing runs. Continuing to produce the film had been cost-prohibitive before, but now that’s becoming less of a factor.”

[rattymouse]

Best not to listen what Ratty says when it comes to film.  According to Kodak, and their Ektachrome testing, they have shrunk down production runs with new equipment to be more cost effective.  To quote Kodak directly :

“Kodak is using “all new equipment” on a much smaller scale to make the film, bringing costs down for smaller manufacturing runs. Continuing to produce the film had been cost-prohibitive before, but now that’s becoming less of a factor.”

Quoting Kodak directly would be providing a source, which you neglected to do.

[Jeff Warden]

I'm concerned about their slide film products. Acros is a fine film but at least there are very high quality alternatives for slow black and white films. But if Fuji pulls the plug on their positive films that will be quite a blow to a lot of photographers. B&H has offered new Provia next to short dated Provia with a steep discount for months now, and that's not a good sign at all for the health of the business.  Oh well.

[rattymouse]

I'm concerned about their slide film products. Acros is a fine film but at least there are very high quality alternatives for slow black and white films. But if Fuji pulls the plug on their positive films that will be quite a blow to a lot of photographers. B&H has offered new Provia next to short dated Provia with a steep discount for months now, and that's not a good sign at all for the health of the business.  Oh well.

You are correct to be concerned.  Fuji has begun another round of discontinuations.  First the pro packs go, then the single rolls.  We've heard this song before.  Fujifilm has accelerated their exiting of still photography.

 

[MiguelCampano]

I went to purchase some more Acros 100 on B&H and they already discontinued it 

It's still available on Freestyle for $7.50/roll, but considering the shipping charges I might as well save my last 4 rolls of Acros for something else and keep using Tmax 100/Ilford FP4 as my "go-to" 100-speed film.

[Bryan]

I went to purchase some more Acros 100 on B&H and they already discontinued it 

It's still available on Freestyle for $7.50/roll, but considering the shipping charges I might as well save my last 4 rolls of Acros for something else and keep using Tmax 100/Ilford FP4 as my "go-to" 100-speed film.

I thought they were expecting another shipment. 

[MiguelCampano]

I went to purchase some more Acros 100 on B&H and they already discontinued it 

It's still available on Freestyle for $7.50/roll, but considering the shipping charges I might as well save my last 4 rolls of Acros for something else and keep using Tmax 100/Ilford FP4 as my "go-to" 100-speed film.

I thought they were expecting another shipment.

 

[EarlJam]

As of this morning, Freestyle indicates that Acros 35mm and 120 are out of stock, with more expected on 13 April. 4x5 in 20-sheet boxes is currently available.

[rattymouse]

As of this morning, Freestyle indicates that Acros 35mm and 120 are out of stock, with more expected on 13 April. 4x5 in 20-sheet boxes is currently available.

It's past that date, and no Acros ever came into stock.  Looks like it is gone.

[EarlJam]

New ETA is tomorrow, 16 April. Could be a delay in transit or a teaser in the hope that something, some day, might be delivered. In addition to the date change for 35mm, they've dropped 120 altogether and whatever 4x5 they had remaining appears to have be taken.

[EarlJam]

Freestyle is looking less promising today. I see two scenarios: one, that orders placed after the announced discontinuation exceeded what they have/had on order; or two, what they thought they could get didn't materialize.

[EarlJam]

Freestyle, as of this morning.

[Indofunk]

aka, last shipment of Acros ever