Topic: Flat bed scanner anti-newton ring glass question

[Nigel]

Although my old Epson 4490 is hardly the best scanner in the world the next logical jump up seems to be a dedicated film scanner. It seems unless you spend serious wedge it isn't worth the benefit. Please correct me if I'm wrong?

The weak link in the Epson, as I understand it, is the film holder. The longitudinal curve in the film means that whichever way I put it in the holder the centre of the film is outside the of the plane of focus.

So, I looked at this: http://www.betterscanning.com/scanning/insert35.html

Which is a piece of anti-Newton ring glass that fits in the standard Epson scanner holding the film flat. My question is, has anyone tried this? Does it work? Is there an alternative? Or is there a bespoke film scanner you'd recommend that doesn't cost a fortune?

This post is sponsored by: One Roll of Film - Saturday 9 September http://www.filmwasters.com/forum/index.php?topic=9289.0
 

[Kai-san]

I have used something like this but the glass was not anti-newton, merely glass with one matte side. It was 4mm thick and heavy, but not heavy enough to keep the Tri-X down. This glass is thinner and they do indeed warn that it might not keep all films flat. But I think this is far better quality than the ones I used, so I would try it. Mine did not really improve things so I stopped using them. My Epson V750 has autofocus, so most of the time the scans are ok. But I will definitively acquire a dedicated film scanner at a later stage.

[jharr]

I own the V600 and in general I don't have any complaints about focus on curly films, but I am generally scanning to share online and not to enlarge and hang on a wall. The film holders are a dream to use with flat film and fall somewhere between maddening and scream-inducing with curly film. For very curly film and when scanning 4x5 sheets, I just put the film down on the glass and go for it. I haven't noticed any appreciable difference between those scans and ones using the Epson holders. I haven't seen any need for additional glass or wet scanning for my needs. YMMV.

[BernardL]

Nigel,

I use a V700 for medium format.
1) I bought the Better Scanning holder. Much better than the Epson supplied one. More sturdy. Adjustable height. And no, the V700/750 does not have autofocus. Which is why adjustable height is needed.
2) Still had a flatness problem like you. The AN glass idea is OK, but the cost made me pause (four strips of film in holder). So I went downtown to a framing supplies store, and asked for "anti-reflection" glass cut to size. Actually, it's lightly frosted on one or two sides. Just make sure the glass sits above the film, with a frosted face pressing against the film's curvature. Generally this means that the emulsion will be facing down, and you have to tick the "mirror" box in the scanning software.

This takes care of most of the film's surface. The short sides at the two ends are still free to curl away from the glass. I take care of that by taping these ends to the glass before inserting into the trenches of the holder. Works for me. Possibly impractical for 35mm film.

[Jeff Warden]

Nigel I know you were asking about 35mm which I have no experience with but since you're considering this brand I thought you might like to hear general feedback as well.  My experience with Betterscanning is for MF.

I've used an Epson V700 for medium format scanning and disliked the film holders which were finicky to use and difficult to get the film flat.  I ended up getting the variable height film holder from Betterscanning that uses the ANR glass to keep the film flat.  For me it's much easier to use, warped film becomes dead flat, and no newton rings.

Initial setup was tedious while dialing in the proper height for focusing, but I've had to do that only once.

[Francois]

Flatbeds always work using depth of field. So for a scanner that can handle film, they use optics that can give you a bit of it.
But those ultra flat scanners like the Canoscan ones use different optics and anything that isn't within a millimeter of the surface is nearly invisible.

[Mike (happyforest)]

Lomography have this device

https://shop.lomography.com/en/digitaliza-35mm-scanning-mask

Which they say hold the film flat for scanning, available for 110, 35 and 120 film sizes.

Which seems a more cost effective device.

Mike

[Kai-san]

For scanning polaroids I use a scan adapter from Impossible that is not made specifically for Epson scanners. I have scanned old 6x6 mounted slides directly from the glass platen, and they certainly were not made for any scanner. If the DOF is wide enough to tackle these differences then we are probably wasting our time trying to flatten the film, unless it is extreme.

[Francois]

I have two digitaliza masks and must say that they hold the film surprisingly flat. But they have two downsides.
1. The height is not adjustable and they are fairly thick.
2. You have to adjust their position by hand as they don't have the clear calibration patch needed for Epson scanners and you can't just plop them on the glass. I think I'll make a cardboard registration template for them.

[Nigel]

Thanks guys, I think I'll give the Digitiza a go.

Francois - I always assumed there's something in the hole pattern on the Epson masks that tells the scanner what mask you're using. Have you figured out how that works?

[Francois]

Yeah, it's pretty simple in a way.
You have a combination of holes and the slot.
The slot is used to calibrate the scanner for exposure. Block this and you can't get anything good out of the scanner (that's the #1 problem with the digitaliza).
then you have the hole pattern. The two exterior holes indicate the scan width for the auto frame selection. The central patterns indicate the holder model.
The 35mm strips just have the horizontal 3 dots on the holders for the 4490 because the scanner scans full width. For 35mm slides, it indicates the edges of a superslide and the slide holder. On the 120 holder, it's the frame edges and 120 holder.

Somebody clever could easily hack this to make the epson scan software have some identity crisis, but there is just no point in doing so as it probably would revert to full width scans anyways. I suspect this is the case since I regularly cover the dot pattern when scanning 120 with no ill effect.

[Nigel]

Yeah, it's pretty simple in a way.
You have a combination of holes and the slot.
The slot is used to calibrate the scanner for exposure. Block this and you can't get anything good out of the scanner (that's the #1 problem with the digitaliza).
then you have the hole pattern. The two exterior holes indicate the scan width for the auto frame selection. The central patterns indicate the holder model.
The 35mm strips just have the horizontal 3 dots on the holders for the 4490 because the scanner scans full width. For 35mm slides, it indicates the edges of a superslide and the slide holder. On the 120 holder, it's the frame edges and 120 holder.

Somebody clever could easily hack this to make the epson scan software have some identity crisis, but there is just no point in doing so as it probably would revert to full width scans anyways. I suspect this is the case since I regularly cover the dot pattern when scanning 120 with no ill effect.

Thanks François, I'm going to try playing with that and see how it works.