Author Topic: wonky horizons  (Read 2782 times)

kentish cob

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wonky horizons
« on: March 13, 2017, 09:36:35 PM »
So, here's the story...
I've been suffering from a compressed nerve in my neck (4th and 5th vertebrae, to be precise) for around 3 months. Physiotherapy and osteopathic treatment ongoing...
I promise, this post is not an attempt to garner sympathy (you're all such nice folk that I've taken that as a given... ;)), but there is a (kind of) photographic point to make...

Last week my physiotherapist gave me a new exercise and said "when you do this, it will help to stand in front of a mirror and concentrate on holding your head straight, in order to re-train your eyes and brain to return to horizontal".
I took his advise, but thought little of his words, until today, when I started scanning some slides that came back from the lab last week. The most recent film, I'd shot over the last couple of weeks purely in order to test my old 400mm Sigma APO that I've decided to offload... (Digression... get to the point pal, you're losing the audience...)
Anyway, every shot on that roll which included a vertical or horizontal was seriously wonky... around 5 degrees of "wonk"... each and every one had to be rotated between 4 and 5 degrees to the left, then cropped to counter it.

Now I'm not saying that prior to this I've never shot a wonky horizon, but I'm pretty certain that I'd nail it more times than not, so it seems then that my eyes and brain have become accustomed, in a relatively short space of time, to dealing with the world on a slight tilt.

Still, looking on the "sunny f16 side", I now have a (slightly wonky) baseline by which to measure my recovery using photography as a complementary therapy...  :)
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jharr

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Re: wonky horizons
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2017, 10:01:55 PM »
My horizons are also 'wonky'. I blame my crooked glasses.

Here's to getting the 'vert' back in your vertebra!  :P
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Bryan

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Re: wonky horizons
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2017, 10:21:03 PM »
It's a day to celebrate if I get a horizon perfectly straight, maybe I need to see a doctor.

chris667

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Re: wonky horizons
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2017, 07:50:57 AM »
I think many years of living on a boat made me lose the ability to get horizons level. I certainly notice I get wrong more now.

Or perhaps I am just more self-critical?

Andrea.

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Re: wonky horizons
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2017, 09:58:42 AM »

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Re: wonky horizons
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2017, 10:05:11 AM »
I hope your compressed nerve is soon on the mend.  I used to play a lot of rugby (front row) and I've had similar - and I know how painful they can be.

As for wonky horizons, before imaging software came to the rescue, I used to use a tripod and spirit level for virtually all landscapes - particularly when shooting slide film, as there's no margin for error as even a slight wonk looks huge when projected to 6 feet by 4 feet....!!  Even for travel shots, I do my utmost to get a reference point in the frame and shoot "square" - primarily to avoid having to crop the frame too much and lose edge details.

That said, I happily accept other people's photos where the horizon isn't dead straight; their shot - their rules.  But not my own.
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kentish cob

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Re: wonky horizons
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2017, 01:40:04 PM »
My horizons are also 'wonky'. I blame my crooked glasses.
Maybe the problem lies with your ears, James..!  ;)

http://www.rax.is/galleries/4/photos/19
Not all wonky is bad
Quite right, Andrea. Wonky can be a great effect, ably demonstrated by Rax (genius). My wonky shots just demonstrate poor technique...  :(

I hope your compressed nerve is soon on the mend.  I used to play a lot of rugby (front row) and I've had similar - and I know how painful they can be.
Thanks, LD. Front row..! That's a proper workout..!

I used to use a tripod and spirit level for virtually all landscapes - particularly when shooting slide film
It's a tripod all the way when I'm shooting with the Mamiya C330, which, incidentally, is fitted with a nice grid-lined focus screen.
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Francois

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Re: wonky horizons
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2017, 01:57:20 PM »
Don't worry about crooked handheld shots. I even managed to do them with a tripod!

I have a small laser level with an audio tone to indicate how off kilter you are.... Maybe the chip inside should be adapted to fit on a hotshoe....

Keep up with that physio. You'll be glad you did.
Last year I got stuck with a locked shoulder (I never thought capsulitis would be so painful). It took a long time to get it fixed...
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MacArron

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wonky horizons
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2017, 02:50:22 PM »
Wonky horizons are inevitable, to my view. Sometimes it is the unavoidable problem of any handheld photo, others is a slight deviation of the own camera viewfinder...

Lately, if I want to shoot a landscape with a horizon in it, I use the iPhone self app to measure tilting (it is the same as compass) If you use a smartphone, there will be for sure any app for it which can be of help.

I hope you get well soon!!
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Indofunk

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Re: wonky horizons
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2017, 03:07:04 PM »
Hope your compressed nerve (and horizons) get better soon! I can never seem to get a straight horizon, even by accident ;D I've taken to blaming my scanner, as the film holders are quite loose and a half a millimeter of tilt can make for quite a seasick horizon ;D

Then again, I only display my photos online, so it's easy for me to straighten them in Lightroom, which is the first thing I do anyways.

Francois

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Re: wonky horizons
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2017, 07:37:55 PM »
Warning: bad pun coming!

Now you know how much of a pain in the neck it can be to take level pictures  ;D

Sorry, I just couldn't resist  :P
Francois

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jharr

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Re: wonky horizons
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2017, 10:20:43 PM »

Now you know how much of a pain in the neck it can be to take level pictures  ;D


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zapsnaps

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Re: wonky horizons
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2017, 09:13:24 AM »
Couple of comments:
Firstly, I have an undiagnosed eye/balance/brain malfunction going on, which means I'm slightly unsteady on my feet and easily confused (but hey - that just makes me an 'artist'). Shooting figurative stuff - my serious snaps, inasmuch as any of them are serious, horizons really dont matter and I haven't noticed many unfortunate wonks. But I carry a d*g*t*l pocket camera when travelling (Paris yesterday) and many of my urban street shots are on the wonk. With my usual arrogance, it had the be the stupid camera - perhaps some idiot didn't stick the sensor in place straight. Change camera. Funnily enough, the same idiot sensor sticker-on chap had moved factories and I had another camera from a different manufacturer, but sensor attached by the same bloke and this, too, was on the wonk. What are the chances of that? Perhaps it was me after all.

So, when shooting urban, the camera has to be level with the ground and perpendicular to the ground and perfectly perpendicular to the subject, if photographing a wall, otherwise the mortar joints, which are usually pretty straight, will be on the wonk. Without a tripod and a great deal of messing around, I would suggest that it's pretty difficult to handhold a camera in all 3 dimensions without wonk. Then there is barrel distortion, glass anomalies... The other difficulty is your particular lens; a 400-anything is very hard to control. The slightest deviation could be amplified. Depending on the distance of the subject relative to the camera, it could be very difficult to try and get all 3 axis points aligned.

The point of all this ramble - try and light 135 35mm or 50mm lens in a town and see how you get on with the angles reading true. All my urban horizons fall to the left.But if I try and compensate for that, I go too far the other way. But it's a good illustration of muscle restriction etc, without the weight of a 400 lens, which may not be the lens of choice for medical folk.

Lastly, we are often too critical of our own work. As you are in the UK, the next time you watch the BBC or C4 news and there is a report from parliament, have a look at the verticals - Westminster is falling down. But because the pictures are moving and we are supposed to be looking at the reporter, that's considered OK & industry standard. If a dedicated FW took the same snap, we'd bin it and consign ourselves to a physio, go to Specsavers or, probably, head to the nearest camera shop to fix the problem.
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Re: wonky horizons
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2017, 02:06:12 PM »
David (Zapsnaps),

If people viewing "figurative" work start contemplating the presence and/or level of barrel distortion and/or whether the photo was suffering from converging / diverging verticals, I would be both extremely surprised and disappointed  :o 

That's not to say that there isn't either art or craft in that genre (far from it, it's probably one of the most testing subjects to do well and to not look too contrived / staged).  However, for "roving reporter" and a fair bit of street / travel photography, the key is to capture the shot "in the moment" as there isn't a lot of opportunity to give it the full Ansel Adams treatment compositionally or exposure-wise.  That's where landscapers have a distinct advantage - though when the wind is blowing clouds around and light is changing, then changing back every 10 seconds, that can bring it's own challenges.

I didn't realise you had that "condition" - really sory to hear of it. Is there any remedy available?
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zapsnaps

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Re: wonky horizons
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2017, 02:59:51 PM »
Hi
I sort of agree - but I snap urban stuff - by which I mean the built environment - as opposed to street photography, which is more about people in the decisive moment. I usually wait for a clean shot without people in view, unless they add something to the mood of the picture. I'm going to start a new thread about this, as I don't want to hijack this one.

No worries about my vestibular difficulties - but thank you for asking - I've had it for more than 10 years. No remedies are available because I lack a definitive diagnosis, or even a suggestion of a diagnosis. But trust me to have something rare. I'm known in medical circles (my day job) as a 'dizzy'. But friends just think I'm vague!
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Re: wonky horizons
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2017, 08:05:01 AM »
Still, looking on the "sunny f16 side", I now have a (slightly wonky) baseline by which to measure my recovery using photography as a complementary therapy...  :)
once again(?), this hobby of ours is of use in daily lives!

hope you'll be on the straight and narrow soon again :)
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kentish cob

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Re: wonky horizons
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2017, 08:46:13 AM »
The other difficulty is your particular lens; a 400-anything is very hard to control. The slightest deviation could be amplified.

Thanks all, for your comments, and of course, you're absolutely correct, Zapsnaps. The 400mm will exaggerate any technical shortcomings, chief of which is adding wobble to my wonk! ??? Although I would have expected blur from camera movement to be the major symptom of that.

As I said, I'm getting rid of the 400mm, so was only using it to make sure it's all in working order (slightly tacky Sigma Zen finish excepted). Not having used it for a number of years, I'm sure my technique was a little rusty, but the shots are all acceptably sharp, just wonky..!
The fact that every shot suffered from almost the same degree of tilt in the same direction would (I reckon) rule out wobble, and that's what got me thinking about my physiotherapist's comment on my "wonky noggin".

I hope your difficulties aren't discomforting or distressing for you Zaps... artistic vagueness... sounds kinda nice, though...
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