Topic: How do you charge for commissioned work?

[6cmsquare]

Hello all!

So..... I landed my first commissioned print for a winery.  A huge 36x77inch monster.. very exciting.
-It being my first one, I'm just charing my client (who happens to be a friend) double my out-of-pocket scanning and printing costs, to cover my time and materials.  -Of course, that doesn't even begin to cover the time I've put into it, but, as I said: It's for a friend.   

They understand I'm giving them a deal, and now they want some more shots prints for the winery.  ...and i have a coffee roster who is also interested in some prints based on this print...

-So, in a world where digital photographers charge an hourly or daily rate to shoot and deliver files immediately, how do you charge for film work?

Charging by the hour seems impossible for film, especially because I like to take my time and may spend half a day just scouting light, not to mention travel, developing, blah,blah blah......  It would be like charging by the hour for a fine art painting, right? 

I'm inclined to just put a price on the delivered prints, as a standard. with maybe some additional processing fees. seems reasonable? No prints, no pay? 

my question to you all is: How do you charge for commissioned work?


(This may seem like some bragging cleverly disguised as a question, and maybe it is a little, but I really am curious!)

and here is the shot...  that's the winemaker...
shot on my Cambo Wide 650, 6x12 roll film back, Ilford Delta 100, orange filter, developed in rodinal 1:50.

[zapsnaps]

This is, indeed, a very difficult question. I usually throw it back at the client and ask them what their budget is, then tell them what they can expect for that amount of money. There are two problems with this approach, however. 'Friends' always expect a cheap price, yet my designer 'friend', whom I have known and employed for over 20 years, charges me commercial rates. So that's a good deal for him, a bad deal for me. But when he asks me to take snaps for his clients, he expects me to charge commercial rates too. But since he bought a digital camera, he doesn't call so often. Funny, that.

The other problem about asking for a budget is when potential clients have not commissioned a photographer before. But in my experience, these folk can be gently guided.

What you have in your favour is size. Few digital cameras could produce prints that size, so 'selling' film is easier. But for magazine work, it is far harder to convince a client that they need film res rather than digi noise. One way to do this is to try and sell the commissioner a second use for the pictures - and the second use should be way larger than A4 mag size. So, the winemaker needs shots for the tasting room, board room, visitor reception area. MF film can give you a print large enough to fill a wall, so if you might need to use the shots for other uses, shoot film. It will be cheaper than shooting digital and then recommissioning the best shots on film for use elsewhere.

Hope this helps

[Francois]

Usually commercial rates are calculated in great detail.
I've often read that every item bought like film should be charged double what you paid for.
I also read that when it comes to friends, you can include some sort of rebate in your invoice after the total has been calculated. That way they know how much the service really costs. And they can appreciate that they give you a good deal.

[kentish cob]

Firstly, many congratulations for securing a commission... looking at the image, it's well deserved.

(This may seem like some bragging cleverly disguised as a question, and maybe it is a little

You've every right to brag... you have a friend who owns a winery..!   

I have sold a few prints, here and there, and I think it's very easy to undervalue your work... I know I do... there's a fear of overpricing and losing the sale, which can force you too far in the opposite direction.

What you're selling is an art print, so I wouldn't get distracted by thoughts of such things as day rates. They belong in the world of commercial / advertising photography. Pricing your print is purely about the value of the print as a piece of art. If you're happy to make a moderate profit on a few early sales then go for it. Build a reputation for quality and your selling prices will rise along with your confidence in the value of your work.
The great thing about this approach is you'll still have the neg, so can sell prints elsewhere if (or better still, when) the opportunity arises. Further commissions (for the same or new buyers such as your coffee house contact) will also result in additional marketing opportunities... how about a set of premium postcards that can be sold on to your customer's customers..? (and sent out to fellow filmwasters in 2017's postcard exchange  ).

Obviously, all this is purely my opinion... I have a signed copy of Keith Cogman's "my mamiya made me a million", but that doesn't make me an expert..

However you decide to price this and future sales, I wish you the very best of luck.

[Late Developer]

Congratulations on the commission.  May you receive many more....

I used to do weddings and portraits as a second income, many years ago but that was for a friend who couldn't accommodate all the work he was offered - but hated to pass up anything.  His pricing was, to my eye, very "scientific" but was, in effect, nothing more than working out his fixed costs (film, processing, albums, time to process and build the album, etc) + variable costs (travel - fuel / tickets, accommodation, subsistence) + tax + profit margin.

I'm not saying it's easy to price jobs (quite the contrary) but the key is to ensure you include everything that is a cost to you + tax you'll have to pay on the income generated - and then ensure you make what you believe is a reasonable return for the work done.  If I was aiming to earn a living from photography, that would be my starting point on pricing - i.e. unless you know how much something has cost, you've no real way of knowing whether you're making money, breaking even or losing money.

David (Zapsnaps) makes a good point about the impact of digital photography.  Everyone suddenly became a "photographer" and, as a result, the likes of wedding photographers have really felt the pinch caused by the move towards "DIY" wedding shoots + friends and family photos to put in the album. 

Now that Fuji has produced a 50MP medium format camera that will (apparently) sell for around £7k + lenses, it's going to be interesting to see what impact that might have on MF film in a professional context.

[Francois]

Business can be a very complicated thing. There used to be a program called Blinkbid that helped all this but they moved to an online service so you can't just download the program and do a little time hacking to get a very extended demo (this is the simplest hack in the world. Install in 2060 and run for the first time to record the date, close the program and come back to 2016 to get a 44 year demo period).

But lets do the full and proper "how to price your services" calculation.
First, select a camera that is sold today and check the price. Now apply inflation to that price for a 5 year period, this is called a fiscal period. It means that you get to replace your gear every 5 years and you plan for the expense. Do the same with the lenses. Now divide this period by 5 and you'll know how much you need to save every year to compensate for wear and tear.
And also calculate the cost of your supplies. Films and processing used to go for double the in store cost. If there are any additional people you need to hire, now's time to bill them to the customers. Then, you can set your hourly rate considering the price of the replacement gear and your own time. If you have to drive, there's always a moving fee (you car doesn't run on air). In this you need to figure out the price of gas, maintenance, oil changes, tires, and spread it evenly over the year and for the event. Then comes the prints, albums, enlargements... you get to take a markup on each of these.

I once met an accountant who told me that in order for a business to be successful you need to have a markup of around 100%. That is a 2$ item sold for 4$.

Rule of thumb, if you can charge for the kitchen sink you should... at double the price.

This is where you can work some magic by dealing with a limited number of stores. If you're a good customer at a certain store and always buy in large quantities, you can ask for a discount. Any saving you get there can either be added profit or a saving that you pass down to the customer.

In Canada there is a minimum revenue that doesn't need to be declared and that requires no tax number or company number. It might be the same in the UK.
As usual, cash payments are invisible to prying eyes...