Topic: Pre flashing?? the the ryan mcginley technique

[johnedwards20]

hi, I've been working with film for a few years now, 120 and 35mm, and have been trying to experiment with different techniques, I've also done some color printing in the dark room, one type of look that I have not been able to work out how to do, or find much information about is a certain look on a number of photos i've seen but I guess the most famous photographer whos style I can link it too would be the photographer Ryan Mcginleys work, the type of look i'm going for it when the whole frame of the film gets a different color shift, and also looks quite soft as well,  like the whole frame will be red, yellow, or a blue,

http://www.thisistomorrow.info/uploads/78c06af0-18e7-4862-bd01-fc35733311b0--00000--Ryan-McGinley.-Jack-(White-Sides).jpg

http://english.mashkulture.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/ryan_mcginley_2010_winter_olympics_high_fliers_03.jpg

http://www.interviewmagazine.com/files/2008/11/22/img-ryan-mcginley-3_160111429092.jpg_v_thumb.jpg

http://historyofourworld.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/ryan_mcginley_moonmilk_09_401.jpg?w=720&h=473


I dont think this look is caused by lightleaks - or by printing -  I've spoke to one of his assistants before who said its a camera techinque, the only thing i;ve been able to dig up is possible its cause by pre flashing the film some how with some colored light?

if anyone has any ideas for this look i would really love some help,

Thanks a lot

[Francois]

You're right in that it isn't a lightleak thing.
But I don't think this is a pre-flashing trick either. Pre-flashing gives uniform results.

I know this is only my 2¢ worth, but I think you're seeing some filter work. I would even go as far as saying they're from Cokin...

The first one looks like Redscale or a dark red B&W filter used with some overexposure.
Second one looks like 2 graduated filters with some overexposure... Possibly on some Redscaled film.
Third one looks like a center spot with an edge cut out.
Fourth one looks like complimentary filters used on the lens and the flash. Red on the lens, cyan on the flash.

At least, that's what I'd do to try and recreate them...

[Flippy]

The first one looks suspiciously like what happens when you fiddle with the color balance in photoshop so that highlights and shadows are more or less complimentary:


You can get a similiar effect preflashing though - which would explain the lack of contrast in the shadows.  

The second one looks like a filter effect.  The third looks like printing - you could use a warming filter, but if you're printing yourself you may as well just make the print warm when you print it.

The last looks primarily like lighting with colored gels,but there's obviously something else going on too.

[johann]

I cannot remember where exactly but I recall I read somewhere that Ryan McGinley indeed pre-flashed his films with different colors to get those effects. But I don't think he did it in camera.

[johnedwards20]

Thanks for the replies... I've had a go with some colored filters and filters for b/w on color and you dont get the same effect, does anyone know more about pre flashing films???

[Flippy]

I haven't seen the same effect achieved with pre-flashing/double exposure before.  But it may help to know what your process is.

Generally what you would want to do is make an exposure through a colored filter and white glass that is aprox. three stops less light than you need for the lighting conditions of your shot.  Then you make your exposure.  I suppose you could substitute an evenly lit, out of focus, white surface for the white glass if you do not have /cannot get any.

But doing it this way - the light areas will still give normal colors more or less.  So I suppose you'd need to use a contrasting colored filter for the second exposure, to tint the light areas too.   Have you tried that yet?

I think I might try giving that a go and see what I get.

[Leon]

I pre-flash black & while film often to control high SBRs.  I guess it's a different process to this, but I think you could use the same method.

• get an empty filter holder and put 2 sheets of tracing paper/ greaseproof baking paper in it to make a diffusion filter

• meter through this to get a light reading and reduce this by about 3 stops (or whatever you want)
• place diffusion filter on on lens and focus on infinity (I expect you will be wanting to place a colour filter in front of this to get the colour cast ... don't forget to apply the colour filter factor to the exposure)
• expose the film, then remove the filter(s) and expose the film again to the subject you have in mind

might work?

[Francois]

I think there's more x-pro to this than we think.

I'm reminded this morning of some shoe pictures I saw in Leica magazine years ago that were shot on color neg and xpro in e6 chemistry. They were by Jürgen Herschelmann. Might be part of the trick.

[johnedwards20]

sorry if i'm not getting it,  so is it three exposures? one with a diffusion or white glass three stops lower, then one with a colored filter on the same frame, and then the actual exposure of the subject, or just two exposures one of the white, and then a colored filter placed on the lens when taking the photo? i dont have much experience with pre flashing, I already read that you could pre flash the whole roll of film before you shoot some how?

[Leon]

i'd try one pre-flash per frame, which would incorporate the colour filter to get an even colour cast across the frame.

[Flippy]

sorry if i'm not getting it,  so is it three exposures? one with a diffusion or white glass three stops lower, then one with a colored filter on the same frame,

No those are the same exposure, the white glass is just to make sure the filter is evenly lit and there are no details or shadows coming through.

and then the actual exposure of the subject, or just two exposures one of the white, and then a colored filter placed on the lens when taking the photo?

 

Those are also one exposure. You can make it with a filter (contrasting color to what you used to preflash) or no filter.  Using a filter for the shot is just speculation on my part though, but it could be done.

[Francois]

Maybe they were just shot on Revolog Kolor 400
Check it out on the Photojojo Store
http://photojojo.com/store/awesomeness/rare-film-pack/

Revolog Kolor

This dreamy film is the by-product of creative European photo students and their darkroom shenanigans.

Revolog Kolor is a 'hacked' film (reincarnated from a regular roll of film). Each one has been carefully unwound by hand, mildly pre-exposed with colored light, then sealed. The result? Your photos look like the friggin' rainbow!

Conjure pink, blue, yellow and green lens flare with the snap of a button. With this film as your scepter, you are the god of light!

[Flippy]

That looks a lot like 15 years expired slide film.

[Francois]

Right now, I think I've pretty much figured out how the Revolog Kolor film gets pre-exposed... it's so simple it's scary!

[wblati]

Right now, I think I've pretty much figured out how the Revolog Kolor film gets pre-exposed... it's so simple it's scary!

show and tell...

[Francois]

Right now, I'm thinking 2 thumbtacks on the wall to hold the film, one of those multicolor clashing gizmos from the Dollar store that have 3 LED's that turn on and off in sequence, some diffusing material, a few layers of ND filters and a U shapped bracket to hold it all together. You just slide the gizmo on the wall a you unroll the film. Baffles keep sight from spilling too much.

That's pretty much what I'm thinking right now.
I could standardize the exposure using a motorized "cable car" made from a kid's toy and maybe a pulley and counterweight.

[Marizu]

I'll second redscale for the first one. Just take C41 off the roll and reload it back to front. You need to overexpose by a load (probably about 5 stops or so) because you're shooting through the anti-halation layer.

I'm guessing Kodak Aerochrome for the last one. That makes foliage show as pink. A guy has been cutting down limited stocks in 120 (possibly larger) http://www.tarquinius.de (no connection to me and I have never got round to buying any).

[The_Astronaut]

I've been pretty interested about this too.
According to this article, he does in fact pre expose his film, granted this was in reference to the photos in his Morrissey series, which do exhibit the same type of effect. http://magazine.saatchionline.com/culture/reports-from/los-angeles-reports-from/post_15

"The colors are the result of film experimentation. Before I go to the concerts, I expose the film to different lights – Daylight, television light, tungsten light, sunsets, colored lights, morning light, basically all kinds of light. I expose the roll and then shoot it again at the shows. Between exposing the film and utilizing the intense stage lighting, i’ve got a process down to achieve new color palates"

From the sound of it my guess is that he is doing it in camera, note that he says "re-shoot", like preflashing/double exposure. I would assume he probably just shoots at all different types of lights out of focus and maybe like 3 steps under exposed and then rewinds the roll and re-shoots. Not sure how got all the frames to match up though. Haven't tried it, but I think I'm going to soon.

any other ideas?

[Francois]

Well, most cameras will pretty much perfectly match the frames. You do need to set a marked start position that stays the same.

As for the pre-flashing, after reading what you just posted, I think he possibly shoots at the subjects with no lens on the camera, using only the shutter to adjust the pre-exposures. That would make a pretty even fog with no distinct shapes.

[Flippy]

It would be difficult to not overexpose the film with no lens in place.  Perhaps a piece of frosted glass could be used?

[The_Astronaut]

Or what about projecting the lights onto a seamless, or even just a big piece of paper?

[Leon]

I reckon some form of diffusion filter also Flippy.

[The_Astronaut]

finally got around to trying this, but unfortunately my frames didnt match up despite me marking the film. Any other tricks for getting them to aline.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianrbielawa/6649253997/#in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianrbielawa/6649252269/#in/photostream/

[Francois]

Marking the start is the only way to go. Check for tips on double exposure.

Though there's one way that would work... but the camera needs to have a rewind crank.

You first bring the film to the last frame with a black cap on the lens so no exposure is recorded. Then, you put the camera on infinity and close enough to a TV screen so you have a perfect blur. You set the aperture for a shutter speed of about 1 second... slight underexposure would be good in this case. Put the shutter on Bulb, press the rewind button. Once the shutter is open, start cranking at about 1 turn a second. That should give you a surprisingly evenly exposed film that is ready for shooting.

Another way would be to hack a cheap plastic camera that has automatic rewind...

[The_Astronaut]

yeah it probably didnt help that I used two different cameras

[Francois]

Well, there's your problem